Vineyard Central – Sustainable/stable Life-together

28Jan05

I woke up last night “composing” this in my head…. I was going to post it normal-like, but John Barrow and I were talking it through and well, I figured the IM conversation conveyed it real well. Here you go:

Aaron Klinefelter: i went to bed (and woke up in the middle of the night) thinking about VC and our structure/leadership…. i think I’m going to blog about it today. I’ll let you knwo if i do so you can read

Aaron Klinefelter: i think it ties in with all this and our last PC meeting

John Barrow: so what is the general jist of your blogger thoughts?

Aaron Klinefelter: we need a long-term, sustainable, stable rhythm to our life together as VC (that includes but is not limited to leadership…. our monthly allgroups play into this i think)

Aaron Klinefelter: i don’t know what that rhythm for our corporate life is… but i’m compelled by a few things:

Aaron Klinefelter: 1) that if we are going to continue to not have paid staff (which i think we should continue, btw). then we need to not try to be like a church with paid staff (this is a mindset change for people – myself included) … in other words our strucuture of how we live together should not be based on a traditional (paid) church leadership/life-together model….

John Barrow: oooh now you are talking my language.

Aaron Klinefelter: 2) sandie gave me a notebook last night from 1997 – a training notebook for VC leaders when we had “bands” the only poeple still around from the list of leaders are dave n, dave b, kevin, matt m.

Aaron Klinefelter: if one of our values stability (which it is and should be, i think) then we should look back on our leaders now in 5 years and see lots of similar faces …. or atleast they still be part of our fellowship.

John Barrow: I see it as a pew mindset

Aaron Klinefelter: 3) in the notebook were survey results from a ChurchSmart survey that VC did in 97 or 99…. (btw, looked good and would be good to do again – per our previous discussion)

John Barrow: I see a great connection between 1 & 3

Aaron Klinefelter: on the survey the weakest area was lay leadership empowerment and one of the pages of the notebook was about how to recruit, empower Interns

Aaron Klinefelter: the very same stuff we talked about at LeTreat

Aaron Klinefelter: we need (i think) to “change the game” as it were – or this will ALWAYS be the issue

John Barrow: you can’t really say lay leadership in our model

John Barrow: I think the idea “lay leadership” is really part of the problem

Aaron Klinefelter: right – exactly

John Barrow: “lay leadership” implys pew sitter. Implies one leader focus

Aaron Klinefelter: we HAVE to move from traditional leadership assumptions to a more sustainable/stable life-together thing

Aaron Klinefelter: IF we make that move…. then the training and empowering emerging leaders will happen like we wish it would. and we’ll move away from PC are the Pastors they just don’t get paid (but we still expect them to do the same stuff)

Aaron Klinefelter: I think ALL this ties directly in to D.Willard’s article/interview about the “crisis of followership” in churches

John Barrow: I have a lot of ideas on this issue because it is just about all I have been thinking about RE: leadership and HC for the last 9 months

Aaron Klinefelter: cool

John Barrow: yes, yes, yes

John Barrow: we are to make disciples of Christ

John Barrow: we are [currently] making discipes of each other

Aaron Klinefelter: seems like paul said something about that

Aaron Klinefelter: actually….

John Barrow: some follow paul some apollos?

Aaron Klinefelter: 1 Corinthians 1:10-18 – is the Epistle Lectionary reading for the week

Aaron Klinefelter: “For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there are quarrels among you, my brothers and sisters. What I mean is that each of you says, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.” Has Christ been divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one can say that you were baptized in my name. (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize but to proclaim the gospel, and not with eloquent wisdom, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its power. For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.”

John Barrow: exactly

John Barrow: also see 1st cor. 12 7-11

John Barrow: 7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

John Barrow: notice the word EACH as you read this

John Barrow: I think this is the model for leadership that we should be following

John Barrow: so it isn’t even the mature or the “lay leadership” that manifest the spirit but each

John Barrow: the cart must be pulled by all

Aaron Klinefelter: amen brutha

Aaron Klinefelter: amen

Aaron Klinefelter: right.

John Barrow: This works into an idea I have for worship in the HC

John Barrow: another area were we have major pew issues

John Barrow: where Paul talks about singing and making melody in your heart and each (notice that word again) should bring a psalm a hymn or a spiritual song

John Barrow: I want to have a worship time where each has prepared ahead at least one of the above and is enjoined to share it in the worship time.

Aaron Klinefelter: that would be really cool

John Barrow: awkward at first I’m sure but with a little HS mixed in I think it could foster the mindset we are aiming at

John Barrow: maybe the next pc we can try it

John Barrow: also, making the “Each” language a part of our “creed” would also help us I think

John Barrow: Priesthood of all believers type of thing

Aaron Klinefelter: i like it

Aaron Klinefelter: i gotta go

Aaron Klinefelter: i may edit our conversation together for my post… if you’re cool with that

John Barrow: aok with it

Aaron Klinefelter: sweet

Aaron Klinefelter: lata

Session Close: Fri Jan 28 10:42:52 2005

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