The Great (Tag)Cloud of Knowing
Tagged "Church, Money, and the Future"- since everybody else is… « come underground
- Church, Money, and the Future «
- There is a discussion going on among my friends and I wanted to share it here…. | The Life of a Cultural Architect
- sustainable church (or emerging into a postbourgeois world) « come underground
- Distractions « danielredbeard’s weblog
- church, money, and sustainability « beauty and depravity
- NOT a Zero-Sum Game « aaron klinefelter
- Sustainability « Chad M. Farrand
- trampoline: viral conversation
- The Mustard Seed: Finding Allies
-
del.icio.us
Alan Creech’s post - On May 5th or thereabouts
Alan was pondering past May 5th (or thereabouts) posts so I thought I’d do the same. You couldn’t tell from this blog (on wordpress.com) but I’ve actually been blogging since January of 2003. I started over on Blogger (back in the day when it was all html, no wysiwyg), but a couple years ago my Blogger blog freaked out and quit working. Fortunately, I had backed up 99% of my 800 or so posts! I’ll attempt a copy paste of past May 5th posts:
Tuesday, May 13, 2003
We had a good House Church gathering last night. Spent some time reflecting on who we are as a house church - attributes like affirming, fun, safe, encouraging. We all agreed that we need to be more intentional about being in each other’s lives and about being involved in our community. It’s that missional/communal tension. My prayer is that we would not become inwardly focused on warm-fuzzies, but would find our fellowship on the missional journey. I think that will be harder and less “modern” (nice little boxes of nurture and outreach), messier and more in the mix - - - how to communicate that and set that as a community ideal and core narrative?
Wednesday, May 05, 2004
VC Auditorium Closed Temporarily
“The church is his body; it is filled by Christ, who fills everything everywhere with his presence.”
Ephesians 1:23 NLT
Thursday, May 05, 2005
Thoughts On The Way to the Abbey: Discontent/Time to Get Radical?
If you give props to someone who gave props to you for giving props to them what does that mean? At what point does it become a prop-eller? Anyway…. Check out Arlen’s post: Thoughts On The Way to the Abbey: Discontent/Time to Get Radical?
This past Tuesday at HC, Mary Ellen shared a photo journey of a two week trip visiting various intentional/neo-monastic communities along the east coast. I’ll see if she’ll post pics to Flickr and write up a thing about it for VC blog.
Peace.
Thursday, May 04, 2006
Cloey Walking - Google Video
I found this video of Cloey that I uploaded last year to Google Video. So Cute!!!
I was on a blogging sabbatical for the first half of 2007, so no post last year.
Here’s a list (pulled from the del.icio.us tagged churchmoneyfuture) of blog posts related to the topic “church, money, and the future”, they are more or less in reverse chronologically posted order:
- church, money, and sustainability « beauty and depravity
- NOT a Zero-Sum Game « aaron klinefelter
- Sustainability « Chad M. Farrand
- trampoline: viral conversation
- The Mustard Seed: Finding Allies
- Ordinary Community: Being Ready
- Church, Money, Future . . . still going « SpiritFarmer
- Rain Ramblings: The Future of Ministry
- Weblog » Emergent Village » Church/Money/Future: Exploring Ecclesial Sustainability
- “A New Mode of Ministry”? More Thoughts on Being Post-Congregational
- I’m “Bi” and proud « the kedge
- The Failing Economy of Church « Chad M. Farrand
- Now You Tell Me! « headsparks*
- The Conversation Rolls and Grows « SpiritFarmer
- A51T15: sustainable kingdom, sustainable church
- Church, Money, Future in the empire « SpiritFarmer
- Ordinary Community: Church, Money and the Future
- The Mustard Seed: The Jesus Underground
- ::: alancreech ::: home :::
- How then shall we live « aaron klinefelter
- Eyes Wide Open - Thoughts on Spirituality, Psychotherapy, Wholistic Health, Everyday Life » Blog Archive » Church Structure Breaking Down?
- CaveOfTheHeart
- starving ecclesial artists unite! «
- A51T15: church, money and the future
- Ordinary Community: This hurts (Chris’ post sort of kick this whole thing off…)
From Chris Marshall:
Ordinary Community: Being Ready
It is the sense of entitlement that I am speaking against when it comes to vocational roles in ministry. I am not against the idea of being paid, I am against the assumption that its the way it always has been and always will be. God does not owe us anything! Not a job, not a title of honor, not an air-conditioned office nor full time hours a week to be a spiritual leader. Now his provision may [embody] all of that for you, but we have to be okay if it doesn’t.
I think this is so important. This weekend, as I reflected on this issue, I found myself being often drawn back to the idea that this thing (the transition, the economics of what it means to be the people of God in the early 21C) is NOT a Zero-Sum Game. “In game theory and economic theory, zero-sum describes a situation in which a participant’s gain or loss is exactly balanced by the losses or gains of the other participant(s).”
This is not about one “model” of church being more “right” than the other. It is not even about being more biblical, though I think that is an intriguing question. It is about the Kingdom of God continuing to break in and how we are going to respond. It is not about older, traditional church folks losing and young, hip, emerging Jesus-followers winning. That is NOT the point. It is about the Mission of God in our time and place. It has always been about God’s Mission, we’ve just tended toward co-opting it to our own ends (and I’m as guilty as anyone on that matter).
I had a couple offline (i.e. real life!) conversations this weekend with 2 friends (Russell and Bethany) who read my (and others’) post about this topic. A prevailing concern was that of older, traditional church and the older, traditional adults in them. Does this move to a new form of ministry and church leave them in the dust? What about inter- and multi-generational ministry? What about all those presently paid clergy and staff, are they all doing it “wrong”? Again, I don’t think this is a Zero-Sum Game. Transition times are inherently liminal spaces and as a society (and as a global church) we’ll surely have a period of both/and-ness. We’ll have traditional, institutional expressions of church who are honestly and sincerely seeking to follow in the Way of Jesus… right along side organic, emerging, experimental communities of faith also seeking to follow in the Way of Jesus. We’ll have paid clergy who instigate Kingdom work partnering with bi-occupational pastors and missional leaders (Russell Smith is a great example of this!).
I think one of the points of this whole conversation is that many see that this transition is coming (and has in significant ways already arrived). These deep cultural shifts aren’t going away. The church has always and will continue to adapt to the cultural situation in which it finds itself. My take on these (blog) writings of church leaders from around the country is that we’re seeing similar adaptations across the USofA. These adaptations look less and less like the churches of our parents and grandparents (not necessarily less and less like Jesus - though every experiment will have the errant petri dish…).
So, during this transitional time we may have to work extra hard to facilitate inter-generational ministries. We are by our nature cultural beings who feel most comfortable in what is familiar to us. But, and I think this point is very important, we are not bound by our culture. We have the ability to cross cultures and even be countercultural. As a church our main identifier should never be the comfy cultural confines of me and mine. This is equally pertinent for the postmodern-embedded college student and the retirement-home octogenarian - both (and all of us in between) must seek first the Kingdom. We find our common cause in the cause of Christ. Of course we’ll have disagreements and points of contention, but that is important too for the refining process. Our unity is in Christ. Working out the way we live as a people of God in a particular place and culture… well that takes time and an openness to the Spirit that cannot happen if we are tight-fisted about our way (which we always think is the “right way”) of doing things.
Mark Van Steenwyk’s comment on his blog in this conversation is helpful in this strain. In response to what traditional (local churches, denominations, seminaries) churches can do, he says…
The distribution and use of resources is a HUGE issue with all this. Who has what resources and how are they being used is an important part of the process of how any ministry works. It also says a lot about our lived theology and priorities… follow the money. Figuring out how to leverage resources (money, time, property, etc…) for the Kingdom is essential.
May the Kingdom Come…





